I am glad that from time to time an opinion will emerge coming from our neighbor to the South, which is not totally blinded by the irrational racist hate like usual. I am re-publishing this text below which I found in a Macedonian portal, as reprinted email correspondence. The author explains why the dispute is irrational and, above all, pointless. I can only hope that more people in Greece like the author below will publicly speak against all racism, hate and hard-line nationalism that flourishes in that country, at least in some politicians who want to earn easy votes from empty-headed people.
By Takis Michas, Athens
Even if the two countries agree on a compromise title for the former Yugoslav republic, their disputes will not be solved.
There is little doubt that a large part of the Greek population, especially in northern Greece, feels sincerely threatened by what it perceives as "irredentism" on the part of the Skopje government.
Recent actions, such as the decision to rename the airport in Skopje after Alexander the Great, or the circulation in public of maps of "Greater Macedonia", confirm the fears of many Greeks that the "expansionist" ideology of their neighbour poses a threat to Greece's territorial integrity.
While some foreign observers concede that Greek fears are well founded, the majority sees them as ludicrous. Yet, one question is rarely posed: Even if one accepts that Greek fears are justified, how will changing the country's name remove the grounds upon which those fears are based?
If that is the case, Greece's policy over the last 20 years, focusing on forcing Skopje to change the country's constitutional name, makes little sense.
Let us assume the government in Skopje succumbs to international pressure and accepts the name "Upper Macedonia". The Greek government, so the story goes, will then welcome "Upper Macedonia" into NATO with open arms. The question, however, is why?
Why should the adoption of a composite name like "Upper Macedonia" make Greeks feel less threatened by their neighbour's so-called "irredentism"?
Irrespective of which name is adopted, the respective historical discourses on which the two countries base their national identities will not only continue to diverge but will also continue to come into conflict with one another. And it is those discourses - not the name itself - that lie at the heart of the dispute.
Today, Greece claims that the country is "an artificial creation" of the former Yugoslav strongman Josip Broz Tito. Macedonian historians on the other hand see the creation of a republic within Yugoslavia as the outcome of long historical processes.
Greece does not recognize the existence of even traces of a "Macedonian" ethnic consciousness among the Slav-speaking population of the region during the 18th and 19th centuries. To the north, the exact opposite view is held.
Greece refuses to recognize that the everyday means of communication in its neighbour is a "language", terming it in all official documents a "spoken idiom" or "dialect".
Finally, Greece denies any "right of return" to the Slav-speaking Macedonians who fled Greece after the Second World War, claiming they were traitors who forfeited their claims to citizenship.
Whether this situation will change if the country adopts the name "Upper Macedonia" is doubtful. The Slav Macedonians who left Greece after the War will not suddenly get a welcome mat in Greece. Nor will Greece recognize that the speech people use in Skopje constitutes a "language" rather than an "idiom" because it is now called the "Upper Macedonian language". Nor should one expect official Greek historiography to suddenly accept that once upon a time groups of people living in Greece developed a "Macedonian" (or should we say "Upper Macedonian"?) ethnic consciousness.
Put bluntly, all the serious points of contention between the two countries, all the claims and counter-claims, will persist, irrespective as to whether the name of the country changes or not - because the problem between the two countries is not a "name dispute" but a general dispute concerning competing national mythologies, symbols and historical points of reference.
In other words, it is a conflict that concerns all the items over which people in the Balkans have been happily butchering one another in the distant and the not-so-distant past and will probably continue to do so in the future if the opportunity presents itself and if European Union funds dry up.
If this is correct, both Athens and Skopje have committed a tremendous blunder by focusing exclusively on the name issue.
Had the two countries engaged in serious bilateral or multilateral talks during the past ten years on all issues and points of contention, and not simply on the "name", perhaps they would not find themselves in their current absurd situation - a situation that only confirms international suspicions that the Balkans are after all - the Balkans!
Takis Michas is a Greek journalist and author of the book "Unholy Alliance: Greece and Milosevic's Serbia" (Texas A & M University Press 2002).
By Takis Michas, Athens
Even if the two countries agree on a compromise title for the former Yugoslav republic, their disputes will not be solved.There is little doubt that a large part of the Greek population, especially in northern Greece, feels sincerely threatened by what it perceives as "irredentism" on the part of the Skopje government.
Recent actions, such as the decision to rename the airport in Skopje after Alexander the Great, or the circulation in public of maps of "Greater Macedonia", confirm the fears of many Greeks that the "expansionist" ideology of their neighbour poses a threat to Greece's territorial integrity.
While some foreign observers concede that Greek fears are well founded, the majority sees them as ludicrous. Yet, one question is rarely posed: Even if one accepts that Greek fears are justified, how will changing the country's name remove the grounds upon which those fears are based?
If that is the case, Greece's policy over the last 20 years, focusing on forcing Skopje to change the country's constitutional name, makes little sense.
Let us assume the government in Skopje succumbs to international pressure and accepts the name "Upper Macedonia". The Greek government, so the story goes, will then welcome "Upper Macedonia" into NATO with open arms. The question, however, is why?
Why should the adoption of a composite name like "Upper Macedonia" make Greeks feel less threatened by their neighbour's so-called "irredentism"?
Irrespective of which name is adopted, the respective historical discourses on which the two countries base their national identities will not only continue to diverge but will also continue to come into conflict with one another. And it is those discourses - not the name itself - that lie at the heart of the dispute.
Today, Greece claims that the country is "an artificial creation" of the former Yugoslav strongman Josip Broz Tito. Macedonian historians on the other hand see the creation of a republic within Yugoslavia as the outcome of long historical processes.
Greece does not recognize the existence of even traces of a "Macedonian" ethnic consciousness among the Slav-speaking population of the region during the 18th and 19th centuries. To the north, the exact opposite view is held.
Greece refuses to recognize that the everyday means of communication in its neighbour is a "language", terming it in all official documents a "spoken idiom" or "dialect".
Finally, Greece denies any "right of return" to the Slav-speaking Macedonians who fled Greece after the Second World War, claiming they were traitors who forfeited their claims to citizenship.
Whether this situation will change if the country adopts the name "Upper Macedonia" is doubtful. The Slav Macedonians who left Greece after the War will not suddenly get a welcome mat in Greece. Nor will Greece recognize that the speech people use in Skopje constitutes a "language" rather than an "idiom" because it is now called the "Upper Macedonian language". Nor should one expect official Greek historiography to suddenly accept that once upon a time groups of people living in Greece developed a "Macedonian" (or should we say "Upper Macedonian"?) ethnic consciousness.
Put bluntly, all the serious points of contention between the two countries, all the claims and counter-claims, will persist, irrespective as to whether the name of the country changes or not - because the problem between the two countries is not a "name dispute" but a general dispute concerning competing national mythologies, symbols and historical points of reference.
In other words, it is a conflict that concerns all the items over which people in the Balkans have been happily butchering one another in the distant and the not-so-distant past and will probably continue to do so in the future if the opportunity presents itself and if European Union funds dry up.
If this is correct, both Athens and Skopje have committed a tremendous blunder by focusing exclusively on the name issue.
Had the two countries engaged in serious bilateral or multilateral talks during the past ten years on all issues and points of contention, and not simply on the "name", perhaps they would not find themselves in their current absurd situation - a situation that only confirms international suspicions that the Balkans are after all - the Balkans!
Takis Michas is a Greek journalist and author of the book "Unholy Alliance: Greece and Milosevic's Serbia" (Texas A & M University Press 2002).
10 comments:
He doesn't say anything new. Everyone knows that the name is just the tip of the iceberg, i said it in another comment of mine in this blog if i remember correctly. As for the constructive talks he talks about, they need two people and not just one to be successful. Let's say Greece tomorrow forgets the name issue, and let your country uncontested saying that you are the true ancient Macedonians descendants, letting the scientific community talk about such matters. Also lets you teach your children that we committed a genocide and not an ethnic cleansing against you (in a period that there wasn't even one government but two sides in a civil war). As long as you continue to teach your children bad things about Greece which are even untrue, do you expect things between our nations to be perfectly fine the next day that we will leave you alone in all those aspects that there is a problem right now such the name issue? Try giving me a honest answer.
Linktothepast, one of the problems in the Balkans is that the science (e.g. history) is used for political, national purposes. It is "national" science, which was often encouraged by the government, during the process of nation building, and licking the wounds from the many wars in 20th century. This is a common problem, and I do not exclude a single country from it. Our proposal, the one of our president Gligorov, somewhere in the early 1990-s, was forming a joint Balkan scientific team and, in a way, "reconciling" the many national histories.
One of the best outcomes of this idea would be a history which acknowledges both good and bad events that happened, but also a history which will help in the building of the tolerance (vs hate) of the Balkanians. Then, there wouldn't be accusations how "we" or "you" teach our children bad things.
In the meantime, let's stick to our national histories and teach our children to forget and make difference between the people in the past and their current neighbors. Of course, some CURRENT bad events need to stop, and we need to really live like good neighbors, otherwise this reconciliation process will never end.
Your politicians during this election period and before ,systematic are mentioning "Every country has the right to call itself whatever it wishes" ....!!
This is a misleading statement. You know very well why Greece is objecting to the use of the name Macedonia. In fact every country has the right to chose its own name as far as it does not belong to another country's history. The name Macedonia belongs to the Greek history. Greece has the right to protect its history and heritage.
Even Saints Cyrilos and Methodios were Greeks born in Thessaloniki and this is well known to all Christians. Pope John Paul the B' in an official apostolic homily to the entire Catholic Church proclaimed that Methodius and Cyril "Greek brethren born in Thessaloniki" are consecrated as "heavenly protectors of Europe". John Paul B' repeated this statement in a speech delivered in the church of Saint Clements, in Rome. You can see the original document here.
Greece does not 'steal' history. It has its own lengthy and respected history. It is the only thing that Greece has plenty of it. The Greek history and culture is respected by all the countries in the world. People who don't have their own history need to 'steal' someone else's...
Dear author ,GoodBytes it is so unfortune that your existence as nation is based on abused historical facts , is it a fact that you are trying to create history from the beggining ? ! It is so unfortunate that "you are spreading poison" by showing our national symbol our Greek flag the way you did it or delivering political status such showing Thessaloniki as the capital of your country ! If it is not poison what else would it be ? Try to calm your self ...and behave like your former prime minister Mr Kiro Glikorov who confirmed twice that you are not related to the ancient Macedonians:
"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
(from the Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35. )
"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia. The ancient Macedonians no longer exist, they had disappeared from history long time ago. Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century (A.D)." (from the Toronto Star newspaper, March 15,)....
It is fact that 125 countries have recognized "Macedonia" under your constitutional name ,...even though why you are so ancious for our recognizion ????????
You are so young my friend and it is so unfortunate that INTERNET have not show you the way to locate the sources for knwoledge ...It is so unfotunate you feel so unsecure for your future and I can understand you ..It is so difficult to live a life without history backup ....!!!
And it is so unfortunate that "your democracy" didn't teach you the understanding that you must not hide my arguments even if are not pleased you ...!
"And it is so unfortunate that "your democracy" didn't teach you..." This from a person, who's country doesn't follow the most basic of democratic values - human right - equal rights and recognition of all minorities. "the understanding that you must not hide my arguments even if are not pleased you ...!" - Just like you do not hide the lack of continuity from ancient Greeks to the modern Greeks?
Dear Bojan ....Please provide answers ...don't avoid them !
As for today ..I wish your party to be the winning party !
BR
Dear Bojan , I really feel sorry for the victims your nation had these days ! I can not accept any crime that has political motive ..Sorry to hear that the politival party of Mr Ahmeti has victims !!
I don't feel sorry for criminals and ex-terrorists who choose to attack police, who (the police) in retaliation and self defense happen to kill them.
I too cannot accept any crime that has political motive and that is why I condemn the actions of the Albanian parties.
Dear Bojan , again I feel sorry for any death ..Calm Your self and let the authirities find out who is responsible for this , and for the reasons that this happened ..Also try not to mention this words like ex-terrorists or criminals ...Try to resolve these matters as you are living together with these people and as I heard these actions took place only few minutes away from your capital city .Try not let political dispute or young passion to be the start point for actions like those during Year 2001 and year 2007 . You are familiar that even NATO or EU are not pleased with the way your elections took place,even more with any kind of such actions from where ever that comes !
Have a nice day and as I said future will prove who had the right or was wrong !!!
All the incidents were made by no more than 20 or 30 people, and it is suspected that the background is more criminal than political (criminal albanian gangs are fighting each other for control over some territory). The rest of the citizens (including over 90% of the Macedonian Albanians) are ashamed of them, and it is the will of everybody that these cowboys see no sky and sunshine for at least 5 years. This issue is resolved as we speak.
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